June 24th, 2005

The big news at Gnomedex I gather was that Microsoft was incorporating support for RSS in it's new generation of IE, IE 7.x, as well as other components of the upcoming Longhorn operating system.

In all the excitement, I've noticed that not many people have talked about whether IE 7.x will also detect Atom or RSS 1.0. Since several prominent weblogging tools don't provide support for RSS 2.0, this does limit the effectiveness of the browser integration.

Considering that Firefox has syndication feed support, for RSS 2.0, Atom, and RSS 1.0, I'm not sure why the fact that Microsoft is playing catchup has everyone in a tizzy; I'm sure the reasons will become apparant…eventually.

However, I definitely don't understand why folks are excited about Microsoft releasing its RSS extensions (lists, where have we heard this before) under a Creative Commons license. Even the CC people seem pleasantly surprised. After all, RSS 2.0 is licensed as Attribution ShareAlike, which says:

If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under a license identical to this one.

True, if Microsoft received permission from the Berkman Center at Harvard, the company could release the extended RSS 2.0 without the CC license. I imagine, though, that Microsoft is indifferent to whether the extensions are used by others or not. None of this is exactly earth shattering use of technology.

As for Microsoft's integration of RSS into it's products, we'll see how much of an impact this will be by the time December 2006 rolls around. A lot can happen between then and now.

The Channel 9 video about Microsoft's use of RSS in IE 7.x says the company will also support Atom and RSS 1.0.

From the video, it would seem that Microsoft is looking at RSS and its extensions as the company's entry into microformatting and tagging, as well as syndication. A sort of RDF Lite, Technorati Tag Heavy.

I can see a conflict already with RSS 2.0 and Microsoft's use of RSS in regards enclosures. Dave Winer has said, there is one and only one enclosure only per item. Microsoft's use implies multiple enclosures. I am assuming that the company is working around this issue with namespaces. Hard to say.

SOAP comes to mind — friends is all relative.

Someone commented at the IE Blog post on this announcement that the spec for Microsoft modifications is free-as-in-speech… Considering recent events, this may not have been the most helpful comment to make in support of Microsoft.

Comments
1
James Kew - 11:21 pm 6/24/2005

Tim Bray is one of the only other posters I've seen mentioning Atom amongst all the Microsoft-Longhorn-RSS hoopla: Longhorn + RSS & Atom. The Microsoft page he links to confirms RSS 1.0 and Atom support.

2

A feed by any other name would smell as sweet. I blame it all on Safari, with their "Safari is compatible with all the RSS feeds on the Internet because of its standards-based support for RSS 0.9, RSS 1, RSS 2 and Atom." Is there a name for words that have been turned into generics while still being specifics in context?

But what I really want to know is what the bloody hell a derivative work of an XML format extension specification would be. Guess maybe they are thinking in terms of someone publishing an "Annotated Guide To Simple List Extensions[sic]" that republishes it with explanations, but to me the only thing that makes sense as a derivative of an extension is that they are saying anyone can add elements to their namespace. Whee!

3

I'm trying to look at SLE with an open mind, but I'm gonna need to keep digging for something a little more concrete than the spec and some sales hype. Right now, I'm still scratching my head, just trying to figure out how an SLE payload would look in the wild.

4

Dollars-to-donuts a Visual Studio user could tell us just what it's supposed to look like - I'm assuming it's idiomatic in their gridded world, and you just drop a sort widget on top of sort columns, and a filter widget next to filter items, and group… well, I don't get "group" at all.

I'm a little less inclined to blame Safari RSS for things now, since I just discovered while trying to google something else that they support all flavors of RSS, but their favorite flavor of RSS is Atom ;)

5

Whenever I see the name Gnomedex, my perversely unyielding mind's eye pictures short chubby software geeks wearing red pointy hats baking cookies in giant kitchens and in various postures on people's lawns while taking pictures of each other.

Sorry to lower the level of discourse, but I was strangely compelled to share.

6
jr - 12:22 pm 6/25/2005

Sorry to disappoint I left my pointy hat at home. I'm not sure that SLE will make any inroads only time will tell.

7
Shelley - 6:38 pm 6/25/2005

Well, jr, next time don't forget the pointy hat.

Mobile, you're not lowering the level of the discourse. I'm rather surprised I actually posted on something syndication related myself. Normally when I do, I end up running nose first into a closed door.

8

I'm pretty sure we could both find an explanation or thirty for why we can't seem to stay away from it on the self-help aisle. I just figure the cure would be worse than the disease, and keep dipping my toe in as soon as the jellyfish stings fade away.

9
Shelley - 8:48 pm 6/25/2005

It feels so good when we stop.

10
Shelley - 12:42 am 6/26/2005

Phil, I did notice that Microsoft is changing the spec based on your comments, which must be positive feedback for your efforts.

But then MS started a wiki to get the 'community' involved, and here we go again…new tune, same lyrics.

You know why there's no women involved with syndication? Three guesses, two don't count.

11
Ben Barren - 2:46 am 6/26/2005

Just listened to the Microsoft RSS podcast from Gnomedex and Adam Curry closing speech both of which I'd highly recommend.

Here's a direct quote from Brad Chase, once of Microsoft at the launch of IE4 back in the day (at Gnomedex they were previewing IE 7)

Active Desktop was a pre-cursor to RSS - or a previous attempt at 'push' media : The difference today is the focus on consumers being able to 'subscribe' to their favourite sites, who themselves will ensure their site is formatted in the right RSS (or Microsoft ?) format to ensure subscription can occur seamlessly. Active Channels had a handful of 'professional' content sites (to quote Steve Jobs on 'professional' podcasters)

Curry made an impassioned plea to let consumers 'get their media back' and also pushed that all industry players should be pushing for one click subscription. I'd recommend his talk over Steve Jobs 'Stay Foolish Stay Hungry' any day - His 'every user is a developer, and every developer is a user' is on the money at this juncture of RSS.

From Brad Chase @ IE4 launch many years ago : Microsoft is focused on "a newer way of getting information, some people call it push, we call it sometimes Webcasting. It's the ability to have Web sites delivered to you. So not only do we think primarily people want to browse, but we also believe there's a set of people that want content to come to them. I know that I travel a lot, for example. And so it's really convenient for me to be able to take a set of sites, download them onto my notebook and browse them right on the plane, even though I'm not connected."

Bill Gates said at the same launch "Certainly, we believe we've made a lot of progress in the browser space. One thing we feel is that with this product, Internet Explorer 4.0, during its lifetime, we will go to over 50 percent market share of browser users. So IE 4 is a major event. Dynamic HTML, active channels, the mail client we've got here, the advances in Net Meeting, all of those are based on the feedback from the people who are out there using the Web in very interesting ways."

It's almost Ten Years on ! Who will have the last laugh ? and where is Rupert ?

http://benbarren.blogspot.com

Thanks to all those who have contributed to the discussion. Comments are now closed, but you can contact the author of the post directly.