Categories
Technology

Radio and P2P – not

Recovered from the Wayback Machine.

Okay, I’ll be the first to admit I’m a mood today, but there’s few things that tick me off more than this application of “P2P” to any old technology that comes along. And then this proud standing back as if all is explained.

Give me a break.

John throws this simple little sentence out as if the word comes from on high:

What’s the killer app for a desktop content management system?  P2P + Web Services + desktop CMS (Radio).  Killer combo.

I posted a comment to the note asking where the P2P was in this equation. I am not expecting a response.

There is no P2P with Radio. Period. Please don’t tell me “full peers” or any bullshit like that. If there is an assumption of a hard coded IP that is online 7×24 then that is a server. I don’t care what you call it.

Web services. Yes. Desktop content management. Yes. But Radio has no P2P element.

It is a good product and I enjoy using it, and I think it’s interesting that Userland has been able to get all these people to do all this work for no pay via the new publishing paradigm but there is no P2P element in Radio!!

Categories
Technology

Radio and P2P

Recovered from the Wayback Machine.

John did respond, in his comments, to my query ,in his comments, about Radio and P2P:

I need a real P2P system to pull this off. Something that can go through firewalls and NATs. Unfortunately, most P2P systems are run by people that are only interested in Napster-style file transfer (essentially a file pile). There is more to this: apps and Web Services.

Appreciation for answering, but one request: don’t go there — don’t go with the limitations of P2P as an answer to the question of P2P expectations in Radio. I can point out more than one application that uses P2P based technologies and whose focus is not based on file manipulation, starting with a mainstream app John probably knows — Groove.

What does Userland want from P2P? Web services imply a server, which implies a traditional approach to serving application needs. Been there. Done that. Next page, please.

If you’re talking publish and subscribe, now we know we’ve been there and done that. Can anyone say “channels”? The technology is neat and seems to be coming into its own — again — but how P2P is this? Isn’t this dependent on a Radio cloud handling the intermittant connectivities of the individual Radio installations? Just as Groove does within its cloud?

Really, with clouds like these, I’ll never have iron-poor blood, will I?

The technology is neat and important and a real step in the right direction, but I don’t think this is what John was talking about. Or is it?

What do you need from a real P2P System, John? If you articulate this, you might find there are people out there with an answer. But we can’t take a shot if you don’t ask the question. Given the right information, we’d enjoy the opportunity, you’d enjoy the opportunity, we’d all learn from the experience, and we’d all have fun.

And we might even come up with some interesting ideas in the process.

Categories
Technology

De-centralization

Recovered from the Wayback Machine.

Julian talks about a rant at the de-centralization mailing list at Yahoo. What he says is right on — specifically:

There’s another couple of truisms here that “standards are useless without implementations” and so “There are only de-facto standards”. Everything else is just academic (mutual) mind games.

If a standard isn’t implemented in the real world, it’s nothing more than a theoretical wanna be wrapped up in pretty white paper, tied with a standards group approval bow.

BTW, I used to go out to the de-centralization group and read the postings regularly, until I found one day that the whole exercise irritated me…badly. As much as I admire some people in the P2P community, there is no one in the field who is either God or the Ultimate Answer Person.

I took a look at the group after Julian’s posting. You know what? I found myself getting irritated all over again. And discouraged.

Categories
Technology

UDDI Questions

Andy sent some questions on UDDI that I’m going to attempt to answer. If you agree, disagree, or have additions, please drop a comment.

Questions:

How do you compare UDDI to other methods of discovering networked resources

(may or may not be web services)

What’s the difference a global UDDI registry and…
– google: controlled by a single organization
– dmoz.org: open, and replicated by other search engines
– DNS: governed by ICANN, but organizations can apply to be registrars
– others?

Do the above services have the same weakness you attribute to a UDDI global registry?

In some ways, we’re talking apples, oranges, cherries, and perhaps some peaches. They’re all fruit, but the similarity ends at that point.

UDDI is a centralized discovery service managed by a consortium of organizations, the content of which may or may not be striped across serveral different servers. Information is added to the repository by submission of those with services to provide.

Google is a discovery service that is also centralized under one authority, but uses many different methods to discover information including automated agents (bots), subscription to other services (such as dmoz) and manual intervention.

Google, though, has an interesting twist to it’s discovery mechanism: it has a set of algorithms which are constantly evaluating and merging and massaging its raw data in order to provide additional measurements, ensuring higher degrees of accuracy and recency. The discovery of data is never the same two times running within a collection period.

The dmoz directory is a great open source effort to categorize information intelligently. In other words, the data is manually added and categorized to the directory. This makes the directory extremely efficient when it comes to human interpretation of data. You might say that with dmoz, the “bots” are human. You get the world involved then you have a high level of intelligent categorization of data. Only problem, though, is that human interpretation of data is just as unreliable as mechanical interpretation at times.

However, dmoz is probably the closest to UDDI of the network discovery services you’ve listed primarily because of this human intervention.

Finally, DNS. DNS does one thing and as pissy as people are about it, it does the one thing reasonably well. The web has grown to huge proportions with something like DNS to handle naming and location of resources.

In some ways, DNS is closest to what I consider an iron-free cloud if you look at it from an interpretation point of view (not necessarily implementation). You have all these records distributed across all these authoritative servers providing a definitive location of a resource. Then you have these other servers that basically do nothing more than query and cache these locations to make access to these resources more quickly and the whole framework more scalable.

In some ways I think UDDI is like DNS, also. You can have UDDI records distributed across different servers to make service lookup more efficient, and to make the whole process more scalable.

This same approach also happens with Circle, Chord, and Freenet if you think about it (the whole store and forward, query and cache at closer servers or peers so that the strain of the queries aren’t channeled to a few machines).

UDDI is like DNS for another reason: controlling organization and potential political problems. ICANN hasn’t had the best rep managing the whole DNS/registrar situation. In particular, you should ask some of the Aussie ISP’s what they think of the whole thing. They’ve had trouble with ICANN in the past.

All of the services share one common limitation: they all have hard coded entry points, and all have some organization as controller. I don’t care how altruistic the motives, there is a controlling body. There’s iron in all the approaches. All of them.

 

Categories
Web

Are Web Services ready for the Web

Recovered from the Wayback Machine.

The headline at news.com reads “Are Web Services Ready for the Web?”

This really annoyed me. Last time I heard, there was a web before Microsoft. And there will be a Web in spite of Microsoft. So the company outreached itself with .Net My Services. Well, that’s not surprising considering how little trust the world has in Microsoft to keep the data safe, as well as not use it inappropriately.

However, smart move on the company’s part now. Instead of trying to bull through with a business model that’s both confusing as well as problematical, Microsoft is going to come to the public with its hat in its hand and say “Well, we’re not sure where to go just yet. We’ve made mistakes.” After endearing themselves to all the people with these heartfelt sentiments, the little MS sharkies will sit back and watch to see how other companies fill the gap with workable and non-workable business models, and then swoop down and pick and choose among the approaches.

Deja Vu, all over again.